Reuse, recycle etc - some positivity

I just heard the Tory working group ideas about policies to help the environment.

I never thought I would do anything but wave a placard at Tories - but I liked that they were offering positive inducements to be good. Reduction of stamp duty and council tax for getting your house more efficient sounds positive to me.

I've been recycling for 20-odd plus years and using the light bulbs and insulating. I've found myself really frustrated now that it's mainstream ideology. Mainly because attitudes are becoming punitive. Now councils are threatening to charge those who don't recycle or not enough - how about differential charges - with lower ones for those of us who do?

I've paid the council to remove my rubbish through rates, poll tax and council tax, all my adult life. Now, in some parts of Britain (and I'm sure it will come to Scotland). This was always part of the service and I didn't hear anyone say it had changed. To offer me a little bit off because I religiously recycle - I might learn to like the council!

I'd like to see the current government and councils offering more carrots for socially and environmentally desirable behaviours and rather less judgement, condemnation and sticks. Blame just breeds resentment and feelings of being forced into it, rather than choosing.

I feel this group set a positive note here and I'd like to see other social and environmental work everywhere take it up. Money off for doing the right thing seems sensible to me.

(Rant over for now!)

I'm not sure that people who already do their bit by recycling need to receive any discounts for doing so. However, I'm all in favour off using measures that will persuade those that seem to think that the earth's resources will last forever to mend their ways. The problem is trying to identify who they are in the first place.

If you think about it Andy, when they decide to charge non-recyclers they presumably use the men at the bin to work it out. It would be the same exercise and the same information. The code in the computer program would simply say that if you're not on the list you get your reduction.

For the Council's part - they set the rate to the charged level and then discount, rather than setting the rate to the discount level and adding charges for those who don't recycle. They might even save on admin cost (no extra bills to send).

Think how good you and I feel when we see 'reduction' on our bill. It's all about psychology, but we all feel better for a benefit for good behaviour, and it will encourage more to do it.

Currently, it seems to me, people have been encouraged to buy lots of equipment (washing machines, fridges, etc) - and I'm going back to the 60's here, because it was good for the economy (we had jobs with it then). We've been encouraged to buy cars (Mr Beeching and the railways). We've been offered the promise of flying to sunnier climes and many people are employed through those industries, airlines, travel companies, insurers, etc.

Now we're all at fault for doing those things. That feels wrong Andy.

Mums put bleach on their floors and they are now responsible for their children having reduced immunity - not the advertisers and health advisers who suggested that they had to kill everything in their home that looked like a germ.

We are all responsible and we all do have to take responsible measures, but I'd like the blaming of ordinary people to stop and that we can work co-operatively to resolve this problem together. That ordinary people are treated positively as responsible adults.

Unfortunately, Wen, that only works with those of us who are "responsible adults". Sadly, there are a hell of a lot out there who simply cannot be classed in that category!

Compared to 25 years ago, many more people do small things to improve their health or the environment. How many people have bikes? Or walk short distances? Do exercise regularly? Recycle? Choose low-fat options and 'healthy' options in shops (while I might personally have qualms - these people are making a conscious choice)?

These weren't very common behaviours in say, 1980. They are mainstream now.

In many ways, many people are taking responsibility, Sue. And that should be encouraged in my view. And those other people should be encouraged to take responsibility too. If it's through their pockets you encourage them - fine!

Wen wrote:

Quote :

If you think about it Andy, when they decide to charge non-recyclers they presumably use the men at the bin to work it out. It would be the same exercise and the same information. The code in the computer program would simply say that if you're not on the list you get your reduction.

The problem is just how do the men who empty the bins make their decision about who is a recycler and who isn't. Is it when the bin is overflowing after not being collected after two weeks? Is it when it happens once in a while. Nowadays my bin is usually three quarters full but this week is an exception because I'm throwing out a few pillows. If these were on the top how would the binmen know if there were hundreds of bottles an cans lying below them. Some households have only one person and therefore very little rubbish and recyclyable material whereas some houses have 4, 5 or even 6 people. How will the binmen know the difference. It's fine if they are only keeping an eye on one or two houses but how do you monitor hundreds?

I take your point Wen, but sadly, where I live, I see far too many examples of people who are most definitely NOT being responsible adults and never will be, no matter how hard anyone tries. Hitting those sort of people in the pocket makes no difference either, as the kind I'm talking about exist on benefits anyway, so it's the rest of us hard-pressed taxpayers who end up footing the bill for their irresponsibility in any case.

Admin, I agree - but it's those councils that want to do this that will define how it's decided.

Sue, I know where you're coming from and I'm sympathetic. As you know, I lived in inner cities for many years and knew plenty who fit your description. Alongside them I met people who were responsible, they may have been poor or less able than others but they wanted to be responsible.

I'm for fostering responsibility, personally, and am tired of politicians, politics, newspapers, people who think they are the only responsible ones and everyone else is fickle. We have to trust one another and work together here a bit. We are all good at knowing what we think is the right thing to do (me included!). We might make the situation more positive by knowing that others want to do the right thing too - whatever we think of what they're doing eg 'healthy option' supermarket meals and health .

I agree with you, Wen. People need to be encouraged to take more responsibility in many aspects of their own lives, rather than either thinking someone else will do it for them, or that they won't make much of a difference anyway. Every little helps.....


(Now where have I heard that one before?)

Well, it looks like charging for waste collection is back in the news http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1504112007 By the way, I picked up a leaflet in Tesco saying something about a facility for disposing of electronic goods becoming available soon. Unfortunately I've lost the leaflet. Can anyone remind me what it said?

I always try to do my bit for recycling, today though I went to the cooncil skips in Penicuik and was told just to throw everything into a single skip as it was going to landfill. About 3 hours later I was back with another car load, this time the guy (same as earlier) asked what the rubbish was so it could go in the proper skip for recycling, this time though there was bits of everything in amongst garden rubbish so it all got flung in the landfill skip.

Surely they should be ensuring that as much is recycled as possible, I almost get the impression that if they're busy - don't sort stuff out, if they're quiet then sort it out..